Working Toward Wholeness: A Guest Interview with Coauthors Jason and Dena Hobbs
The problems in our world crowd our minds, make our hearts beat fast, and our armpits sweat. The fear factor will never go away. It is wired into your body to protect you. And while anxiety can hurt us, it can also drive us to better personal understanding. Author Dena Hobbs thinks about a former season when anxiety ruled her body and mind as a critical time of growth. She quotes French chemist Antoine Laurent de Lavoisier, “Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed.”
Husband and wife co-authors, Jason and Dena Hobbs, don’t suggest ignoring or ridding your fears rather learning to manage them. Their new, instructive eight-week course and part memoir on anxiety management is the tool we all need.
Their insight into anxiety disorder reaches far beyond the pages. Dena and Jason are a lighthouse and join us to talk about their book, coaching anxiety-stricken people, and working together. To guide you on understanding the effects of anxiety, read this clip from their new release When Anxiety Strikes.
"One vital resource anxiety steals from us is our social support. This can happen for a variety of reasons. Maybe we are ashamed to admit we struggle with anxiety. The stigma of anxiety prevents us from sharing our burdens openly with others. Maybe in our pride we want to handle it. Or maybe we are so scared and tired that it is hard to reach out anymore. Whatever the reason, when we lose our community, we lose an important resource for overcoming our anxiety. We become disconnected from those around us. What is doubly sad--and ironic--is that many of those around us share our same fears and worries! If only we could reach out to them and face our fears together."
MK: There is so much from When Anxiety Strikes I wish I knew when I was in college. How can someone get back that seemingly “lost” time from when anxiety ruled our days?
DH: The French chemist Antoine Laurent de Lavoisier said, “Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed.” I think that way about my younger years when I struggled so hard with anxiety. That time is not lost. It helped God transform me into who I am today. There is still some sadness around the struggle, but I wouldn’t have the gifts I have today without the hard times. I am more patient, more compassionate, and more grace-filled because of my journey with anxiety. I would go through it all again for what it has taught me about leaning on God’s grace and mercy.
That being said, as a campus minister I definitely do try and help my students learn to manage their anxiety while they are young, so I guess I don’t wish a hard second decade on anyone else.
JH: We start where we are. We did struggle through some of those early years: Dena with panic and anxiety and I was trying to hold on through that with her. That was not easy for either of us. But here we are, still holding on, loving each other, and grateful for what God has brought out of that struggle.
Sometimes with patients, I say we should let something be a part of your story, but not ALL of your story. Acceptance does not have to mean that we like what happened; we don’t. But it does mean taking an authentic and honest look at it, and then moving on from there.
MK: Writing something so personal to you must have proved daunting at times. How did you together draw the line between sharing your experiences to help others and keeping things private for personal healing?
DH: One of our guiding principles is we don’t share other people’s stories. Also, we tried to tap into the places where our personal story is most universal. We don’t share great detail about some of the hard times, just enough detail that other people can see themselves in our story.
Honestly, writing the book was more healing than difficult as we had control over what we shared and the pace at which we wrote. Post book publicity has been more challenging as people have asked some really personal questions in interviews. It is tough because you want to help other people with your story, but yeah, it can be raw sometimes. Reliving a memory from 20 years ago can still be painful.
MK: It’s a really good thing you have each other for those personal interrogations. Let’s talk about coauthoring. What was the experience like and what unexpected challenges did you both face?
DH: Co-authoring was overall a good experience. It enabled us to learn new things about each other, even after 20 years of marriage. Most days it was a bonding experience. But there were certainly days we disagreed and that was a challenge. What was unexpected is we argued more about how to publish and how to market rather than content. One of the great things about co-authoring is it doubles your wisdom, experience, and platform. I think the combined voices make for a richer book.
JH: One of my favorite quotes is “none of us is smart as all of us”. A plus for us is that we have different gifts and used those together. What is funny to me is people say that they find it hard to hear our different voices in the book. There were times in the editing process that we too could not say for sure who wrote a certain paragraph or phrase.
MK: Can you share a few elements of a true love story that might be missing in our favorite books and movies?
DH: True love stories require commitment over time. Especially in hard moments. There were times when I thought Jason would leave me because I was struggling so much with anxiety and depression. But he stayed! The fact that he took for better or worse and in sickness and health to heart means the world to me.
JH: John M. Gottman, expert in marital therapy, talks about how we make lots of choices that either helps us “turn towards” each other or “turn away”. So much of a relationship and certainly a marriage are in those small gestures. It is like a web that has all these small threads but when woven together, makes a strong, secure, and safe place for each other.
DH: I also think there are so many quiet, ordinary moments that can be beautiful, but are left out of books and movies because they are not exciting. A few weeks ago, we took a hike together to a waterfall. A lot of the hour we hiked was spent in silence. But after all the years we can enjoy a beautiful moment quietly and that is okay. It does not always have to be passion and excitement. Quiet and contentment can be wonderful parts of a love story.
MK: Your breathing exercises have been an immeasurable tool for my own writing this past month. How does anxiety stunt creative expression, successful processing, and sense of personal accomplishment?
JH: Here’s where I turn into Cliff Claven (for us GenXers, Cheers is sacred canon). “Actually, there is an interesting study …” where they gave some college kids a maze to complete. On one of the mazes there was a mouse trying to get to a piece of cheese. In other words, you were moving toward something positive, a reward. The other maze had a mouse running away from an owl. The mouse/owl maze very subtly triggered a fear or “aversive” response, as does anxiety. The students completed the maze in similar times, but then they gave them a measure that assessed creativity. Those scores were markedly lower for the owl/mouse combination compared to the mouse/cheese mazes.
In short, an anxious brain is in fight or flight. And it really shouldn’t be thinking creatively where there is an existential threat nearby. So there’s a tiger running at you. You don’t want to spend time googling what the tiger might prefer to eat and how you might prepare the meal. You either want to run or figure out how to fight the threat.
This sort of either/or, all/nothing thinking is what anxiety is good at. And while a small amount of anxiety can enhance performance (especially with sports), it doesn’t do so well for creativity.
MK: Thank you Jason and Dena for your incredible insight into this complex topic. We hope the best for your book’s first year out in the world and look forward to gaining more tips from you both. To learn more about Dena and Jason’s work, check out their profiles and website below. Their Facebook page also has many great updates for you!
Jason Hobbs is a clinical social worker in private practice who spends most of his time working with children, adolescents, and adults. Along with his wife, he is co-author of When Anxiety Strikes: Help and Hope for Managing Your Storm (Kregel). The rest of the time, he is either running or making sourdough bread.
Dena Douglas Hobbs is a campus minister to Episcopal and Lutheran students. She is co-author of the new release When Anxiety Strikes and author of the advent devotional Lighten the Darkness. She is wife to Jason, mom to two teenage children, a tamer of her own anxiety, lover of animals, and waterfall chaser.
Here are a few things Jason and Dena are reading right now, be sure to click and check the books out.
